Talk:Dawn of War Player's Guide

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Contents

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Future

After soulstorm is released, should we keep existing pages and fork the info so that new info is separate from whats already been made? Or should we update each unit with new stats and abilities, since we don't keep separate pages for DoW vanilla or winter assault? We have at least a few months to decide this, so I'd like to hear comments. Morifen 16:03, 29 September 2007 (MDT)

If the lack of DoW/WA players after DC's release is any indication, maintaining the guide with DC info won't be that important. That being said, I'm reluctant to just discard the entire old guide for the new expansion. What might be a possibility is making the main guide, the one that the unit list links to, be for Soulstorm. For the new units, this should cause no problems. For old units that have been updated, we provide a link at the top of the page to the DC version of the unit. As long as there aren't TOO many changes, and I don't think Relic wants to completely overhaul the game mechanics again, this should generally avoid tons of duplicate pages. Maktaka 18:15, 29 September 2007 (MDT)
I was thinking about the new armor type for air units, air_med, and I don't think we need to create a new page if that's the only update. Just add [[Dawn of War: Soulstorm|Soulstorm v1.0]] underneath the Dark Crusade version number and leave the rest of the page intact. If we end up having a ton of pages changed during the update (it looks like about half the old units are being updated, so we'll see), a second unit list that links to the Dark Crusade pages instead of the up-to-date Soulstorm ones may be necessary. Maktaka 14:04, 2 March 2008 (MST)
K, I've started a thread at the Relic Community Forums to organize the updating of the wiki, and it was promptly swallowed whole by the many duplicate spam and bitch threads (I don't think all of the new threads suck, just most of them right now). Check there for info on what needs updating and how to go about doing it, although I imagine if you're reading this you've already got a pretty good idea about how things work. Also, and I fell filthy asking this but it's for the greater good, post in that thread if you can think of something truly worth saying to bump it back away from the third page. The more people who see that thread, the faster the guide gets updated. Maktaka 10:24, 6 March 2008 (MST)
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New guide unit list

I've added the Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle (their unit stats and icons are hidden in the demo, but not the visuals/audio of the units) to the unit list, but it really looks bad at 1024x768, which although a dying breed is still a resolution we should be supporting. The Tau infantry section with their long unit names stretches about 33% further down than any of the other races, and it looks even worse because it's next to the short Necron list. I see two options rights now. First, remove the bullets from the list. This makes things align much better again, but it's harder to pick out the individual units without the bullets. Second, switch the guide list over to a horizontal layout with asterisks separating the units. I don't think this is really any better than the no-bullet setup, the wraparound and less intuitive layout means it's a bit annoying picking out individual units, but it's an option. I'm leaning towards the no-bullet setup, but I'd like to reach a consensus on this issue before making a decision of that magnitude. Maktaka 02:01, 13 January 2008 (MST)

Hum...I would rather see the no-bullet than the horizontal one, even if the Tau infantry list look too long. So i give you a green light to edit! :P Gabthelazy 09:47, 13 January 2008 (MST)

My wiki-fu is too weak to change it, but it should say Dais of Destruction, not Dias.

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Racial summary on the main page

I've reverted that edit for the time being until we can get a consensus on whether or not to include it. There are several problems I see with it:

  1. Tons of text. The unit list is probably the important section on that page (in terms of what people access upon arriving at the page), and having it bumped so far down by this information makes accessing it obnoxious. Check the Popular Pages to see what I mean about the first point.
  2. Inevitably exclusive. It's not possible to accurately sum up a race in just two or three sentences, and trying to do so just makes the above problem even worse.
  3. Duplicated information. Every single one of the race pages already has (or should have, i.e. Orks) a general description of the race right above the table of contents on that page. This is the logical place to go to get an overview of the race anyways.
  4. Contentious information. There's never a single summary of a race that satisfies everyone, and when that's right on the front page, people are going to feel a very strong need to correct it to their own particular viewpoint, which will result in both numerous edits to the front page, something I'd like to avoid as the table of contents for this guide should not be so variable, and it will also add information which will exacerbate 1 above.
  5. Wrong type of information. This page is the table of contents for the guide and as such it shouldn't include lengthy discussions of anything, just a list of the articles and a quick legend on how to read them.

I'm willing to be proven wrong on this, but I'd like to reach a consensus on such a massive change to the front page of this guide before its included. Maktaka 20:35, 28 February 2008 (MST)

Agree with all 5 of your points. It's just something that is not needed. Cold Crusader 09:19, 29 February 2008 (MST)
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Misc

  1. Sisters of Battle: I'm willing to add basic information and tactics sections. Cold Crusader has put up the pages and some stats. I'm not so good at this and it takes longer to complete, so any help would be welcome. Noob of destiny 22:34, 8 March 2008 (EST)
  2. Dark Eldar Soul Powers: Where are these abilities going to be located? Noob of destiny 4:07, 9 March 2008 (EST)
  3. Template: The template with all the race's units and buildings needs updated to include the Shrine of the Living Saint. Noob of destiny 15:59, 9 March 2008 (EST)
  1. I'll be doing SoB after I get IG updated, duty to the Regiment comes first.
  2. I was thinking we could put Soul Powers at the Dark Eldar HQ where abilities would go, but put them under a Soul Powers header and make a note that they're cast from the toolbar, not the HQ.
  3. I updated the unit list with the Shrine and the ability infobox to allow for air DPS (I've updated the Dais with this info). If you were wondering, those template updates are what shut down the wiki for about half an hour. Maktaka 17:13, 9 March 2008 (MDT)
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To Do

Please report when you begin/finish a major section so we can keep track. Feel free to add/remove from this list. Noob of destiny 1:57, 10 March 2008 (EST)

  1. Add new buildings and units (duh) DONE
  2. Updating existing buildings and units, report by race (anyone working on this?) DONE
  3. Create main Dark Eldar and SoB pages (EVERYTHING links to them) DONE
  4. Create pages and main page links for Dark Eldar soul powers DONE
  5. Update the rest of the pages linked to on the main page. I did some massive work on this, particularly hotkeys. DONE
    1. some hotkeys appear to be nonexistant. Can someone confirm? (Which hotkeys did you think were missing?)
    2. sync kills page needs new special sync kills and statistics on sync kill percent activation DONE
    3. Soulstorm appicon needs uploaded for use in Army Painter page DONE
    4. Single player campaigns. I can take care of most of this, but images of racial bonuses need uploaded for use in special territories section DONE
    5. unit quotes DONE for regular units, still needed for squad leaders
    6. terminology/lingo. Add as you encounter new or make up
  6. Create pages for soulstorm commanders.
I've actually got a thread going at the Relicnews forums to keep this stuff organized, at least as far as the unit pages go. Getting the rest should be easier once the unit pages updated: we can copy descriptions from unit pages for the race pages and the main page links will be easier to do. Single player stuff I think should wait until the main pages are updated, since it's less important. I uploaded the Soulstorm icon here. Also, regarding 4, why not just put the Soul Powers on the DE HQ page like I described above? Maktaka 01:03, 10 March 2008 (MDT)
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Air units notes

A couple consistency concerns regarding air units I'd like to get cleared up before we get too much further on them:

  1. Armor type. The game engine calls it air_medium, but in order to fit it in the DPS chart, I had to put it under Vehicles. I labeled the Marauder's armor type as Vehicle Air to make it obvious where to look in DPS charts to find its armor type. Also, the addition of "medium" on the armor type can give the misperception that there are other air armor types.
  2. Tagging air units. I added a small note next to the movement speed of the Bomber to a yet-to-be-written article on air units. Since armor type does not define whether or not a unit is a flier (Attack Scarabs are still vehicle_low, for example), we need to note which units are fliers on their pages. I figured putting a note about how they move next to how fast they move is the most efficient option.

Anyways, thoughts? Maktaka 18:05, 13 March 2008 (MDT)

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Consistency

We should have some consistency in the main race pages, generally it's:

units by tech tree

commanders

buildings by tech tree

turrets

mines

There are some exceptions, I'll get around fixing them Duck 04:24, 29 March 2008 (MDT)

we should also do the commanders by tech tree Duck 04:48, 29 March 2008 (MDT)
It's probably most logical to put them in the same order as the main unit list, which is ordered by unit type (unit, commander, building, defense building) and tech tree, with the notable exception of thermo plasma generators appearing before T1 barracks (probably has something to do with thermo plasmas being T1 before DC 1.2, when the player's guide was started during DC 1.0). Cold Crusader 08:01, 29 March 2008 (MDT)
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Charge Bonuses

So there are a lot of units that have charge bonuses, and personally I think noting the charge bonus in the unit's description isn't the best way to mention it. I mean look at the Nob's description, it's just packed with way too much info. Should charge bonuses be put into ability infoboxes even though they aren't technically abilities? Furious Charge and Feral Leap aren't technically abilities either and they get infoboxes. Thoughts on this? Cold Crusader 08:21, 29 March 2008 (MDT)

The major downside to another infobox is that it takes up a LOT of extra space on the page, pushing the weapons and research info even further down. What about just preceding the charge info with Charge bonus: just like most pages have a Note: when listing a variance in the unit in the description? Maktaka 14:13, 29 March 2008 (MDT)
Yea, good point on the extra space part, I guess the preceding note is more the reasonable way to make it stand out. I'll start adding the note to any units that have a charge bonus. Cold Crusader 07:48, 30 March 2008 (MDT)
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Needed Tactics

There are still pages in need of tactics. Most important are new units like Fighta-Bomma, Nightwing, and Talos (started but needs more work). Buildings and squad leaders are less important, but at least listening posts, turrets, and mine fields could use some. Once pages for campaign leaders are created tactics will be needed there, particularly involving wargear. Noob of destiny 14:36, 29 March 2008 (EST)

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Link to commander units

When i first found this guide,i couldn't find link to commander units,so i think we should make this more clearly,im thinking of 2 ways:
1/Add new page about Commander Units,just like the Air units page ,with a short tactic & a list of commander units
2/Add each link to squad that can have commander another link to that commander,for example: Add a link to aspiring cham after the link to CSM squad like this:Chaos Space Marine Squad(Aspiring Champion)
If squad can have 2 commander,like FW:Fire Warrior Team(Shas'Ui;Shield Drone).Warp 11:34, 1 April 2008

I assume you're referring to squad leaders, not Commanders. Commanders are the Force Commander, Big Mek, etc. Anyways, I tried out your idea for the unit list with Eldar in a sandbox page, and it just doesn't work. The list gets completely distorted: races with squad leaders will nearly double in length while those with few or none will end up with huge swathes of blank space (Necrons are already short). Maktaka 15:10, 1 April 2008 (MDT)
Well,how about the first way ? Warp 14:47, 2 April 2008
Yeah, I've been thinking about that one. Really, Squad Leaders on their own don't deserve an article, they're just a single aspect of the entire squad mechanic, which oddly we didn't have an article on so I've just finished writing one to cover it. I did not list the squad leaders there, they are already listed on the Hotkeys page and they are also very clearly linked on the squad's page they are part of.
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Icons & images in general

Icon pics could be updated - they've been senslessly converted into jpeg, losing transparency and making them rather ugly. Transparent gif/png icons would look a lot cleaner.

Which leads to my question - how the h*ll do you upload/update images? All I get is "not writable by the webserver".

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